|
Crimes committed by a Hasidic Jew
NYC is the only city where the crime(s) committed by a
(Hasidic) Jew is condoned/ excused/ overlooked for the fear of being
considered anti-semitic.
There is a bunch of pro-jewish lobbies that come down on you as a ton of
brick if you as much as vent any dissent with the status quo that
prevails in
this oppressive city. God forbid, you question any of the openly
pro-Zionist support/ policies that dominate local "Bloomberg doctrine"
of dumping on the "minorities" that form over 52% of NYC population.
Joel Engelman and Joe Diangelo are driving through their
old Brooklyn neighborhood. Williamsburg is a place from another time and
country. The shop signs are in Hebrew. The men scurry by in long black
coats; their hair hangs in corkscrew curls. Married women wear wigs to
cover their heads.
Engelman and Diangelo haven't been here in years. They just met a few
weeks ago, but as they begin swapping stories and the names of family
members, they realize they have a lot in common. Both men are in their
20s, both were raised as strict Hasidic Jews, and both fled their
upbringing for the same reason.
"Are you ready for this?" Engelman asks Diangelo, glancing at his friend
in the back seat.
"Yeah," Diangelo says, his breath quickening. "Yeah, I'll do it, just a
quick pass by."
Diangelo grows quiet as we approach a nondescript brownstone building: a
synagogue.
"See the Hebrew sign?" he says, pointing. "You go downstairs, and that's
where the mikvah is."
The mikvah is a bathhouse usually used by women for ritual cleansing.
But in some Hasidic communities, like this one, fathers bring their
young sons on Friday afternoons before Shabbat begins. Twenty-one years
ago, when he was 7, Diangelo recalls going to the mikvah with his father
to find the place packed with naked men and boys.
"And I was in the tub, and I had my back turned, and somebody raped me
while I was in the water," he says. He takes a shaky breath. "And I
didn't know what happened. I couldn't make sense of it, really."
Diangelo says he never saw the man who abused him. These days, monitors
are posted by the bath to stop any sexual activity. But back then, the
boy was on his own. He told no one but began refusing to go to the
mikvah. He left Orthodox Judaism when he was 17. He changed his name
from Joel Deutsch and cut almost all ties with his family and friends.
Now, Diangelo wears black leather and mascara. He plays in a rock band
and takes refuge in the heavy-metal lyrics of Metallica.
"There are so many songs, you know. They have a latest song, which is
called 'Broken, Beaten & Scarred,' and one of the verses is: 'They
scratched me, they scraped me, they cut and raped me.' " He laughs
wearily. "And that's my life right there. When I listen to it, it gives
me strength."
Allegations Of Abuse
For these two men, this is a tour through aching secrets and violent
memories. Diangelo and Engelman are unusual because they let their names
be used. But they believe that sexual abuse is woven throughout this
Hasidic community.
For Engelman, the loss of innocence came at school.
"This is it, right here," he says.
Engelman parks his car across from the United Talmudical Academy, a
hulking building on a desolate street. This was the yeshiva, or Jewish
boys' school, that Engelman attended. Engelman says he was 8 years old,
sitting in Hebrew class one day, when he was called to the principal's
office. When he arrived, he says, Rabbi Avrohom Reichman told him to
close the door.
"He motioned for me to get on his lap, and as soon as I got on the
chair, he would swivel the chair from right to left, continuously,"
Engelman says. "Then he would start touching me while talking to me. He
would start at my shoulders and work his way down to my genitals."
Engelman says this occurred twice a week for two months. He told no one
for more than a decade. Reichman was, after all, a revered rabbi. Four
years ago, he told his parents. And a year ago, when he heard that
Reichman had allegedly abused several other boys, they confronted
Reichman. When the school heard about it, they gave the rabbi a
polygraph.
"He failed miserably," Engelman says. "So they told me, 'This guy is
gone. This guy has to go.' "
But a few weeks later, a religious leader from the school approached
Engelman's mother, Pearl. He posed an astonishing question: On a scale
of 1 to 10, how bad was the molestation?
She was speechless. Then she says, the man continued, " 'We found out
there was no skin-to-skin contact, that it was through clothing.' So
he's telling me, 'On a scale of 1 to 10, this was maybe a 2 or a 3, so
what's the big fuss?' "
The school hired Reichman back. That was in July 2008 — one week after
Joel Engelmen turned 23 and could no longer bring a criminal or civil
case against the rabbi.
An Open Secret
Reichman and school officials declined to be interviewed for this story.
But Rabbi David Niederman, who heads the United Jewish Organizations of
Williamsburg, says the school did its due diligence. He says the
allegation was thoroughly investigated by an independent committee of
lay people and rabbis.
"I'm convinced that they made a serious investigation," he says. "They
felt that it's not credible."
Now Engelman has filed a long-shot civil suit against Reichman and the
school, claiming they broke an oral contract.
Reichman's attorney, Jacob Laufer, says the lawsuit is baseless and that
the community is fully behind the rabbi.
"Even after these accusations were publicly made," he says, "the parents
continue to compete among themselves for the opportunity to have their
children be educated by Rabbi Reichman."
The Reichman case is not isolated. Four ultra-Orthodox rabbis in
Brooklyn have been sued or arrested for abusing boys in the past three
years. That's a tiny fraction of the actual abuse, says Hella Winston,
author of Unchosen: The Hidden Lives of Hasidic Rebels. She says that in
researching her book, she encountered dozens of alleged victims who told
her sexual abuse is an open secret in the Hasidic community. But the
community is so insulated and the rabbis are so powerful that few dare
to come forward.
"If I become known as an informer, then people also won't want to have
anything to do with my family," she explains. "They won't want to marry
my children, won't want to give me a job. This is the fear."
But more and more accusations against rabbis have begun to circulate.
Last August, politician and radio talk show host Dov Hikind devoted an
hourlong program to sexual abuse. He interviewed Pearl Engelman, who
spoke under an alias, about her son's case.
The calls flooded in. Hikind, who is an Orthodox Jew himself, represents
this area in the New York Assembly. He says after the show, people
started showing up at his office with their stories.
"Fifty, 60, 70 people," he says, "but you got to remember for each
person who comes forward, God only knows how many people are not coming
forward."
Ongoing Investigations
Hikind refuses to release the names of alleged perpetrators, although he
is working with the district attorney's office. He says the people who
confided in him are afraid to go public, which creates a perfect
situation for abusers.
"If you're a pedophile, the best place for you to come to are some of
the Jewish communities," he says. "Why? Because you can be a pedophile
and no one's going to do anything. Even if they catch you, you'll get
away with it."
"To me, it does not make sense," says Niederman, of the United Jewish
Organizations, "that so many people have been violated and for so many
years they have been quiet. Something does not add up. It's being blown
out of proportion — big time."
Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes says he has 10 active sexual
abuse cases involving Orthodox Jews — including a school principal who
was recently arrested on a lead from Hikind. And Hynes says there could
be many more. Yeshivas are private schools, which means they don't have
to report accusations of sexual abuse to civil authorities.
"I've got no way to know if there's a pattern of concealing the
conduct," he says.
Hynes says the Jewish leaders — like Catholic bishops — try to handle
these affairs internally, through a rabbinical court. It's a practice
that infuriates him.
"You have no business taking these cases to religious tribunals," Hynes
says. "They are either civil or criminal in nature. Or both. Your
obligation is to bring these allegations to us and let us conduct the
investigation."
Hynes says he's trying to work out a memorandum of understanding with
the rabbis, in which they promise to bring the prosecutor every
allegation of abuse.
Pearl Engelman is skeptical: The rabbis have hardly been forthcoming in
her son's case. Still, she loves her community and worries these
allegations have tarnished it.
"This is a community of the most wonderful people, hardworking people
who lead righteous lives," she says. "And it's just a few corrupt people
who give us a bad taint."
Her son Joel isn't so sure it's that few. Anyway, for him, any remedies
come too late.
"Pretty much, I left my childhood here," he says. "After I left here, I
had a totally different picture of school, religion and life."
But Engelman hopes that his story will shine a light on the secret and,
perhaps, protect the next generation of children in this community.
Overview: Hasidic Judaism
by Andrew Prince
Hasidic Judaism found its roots in Eastern Europe in the mid-18th
century, at a time when Jewish people were experiencing persecution in
the Polish kingdom. Seen as a radical movement, a challenge to the
tradition of scholarship and the rejection of worldly pleasures of the
Jewish elite, early Hasidism emphasized mysticism, emotion, faith and
joy. Prayer, song and dance were parts of worship.
The movement was initially led by Rabbi Israel ben Eliezer, known more
commonly as the Baal Shem Tov, or Besht. The Baal Shem Tov, which in
Hebrew means "Master of the Good Name," won widespread support among all
levels of Jewish society for his ideas of inclusion through invocation
of stories, folklore, sermons and fables.
"The Hasidic movement was initially a populist movement," says Sylvia
Barack Fishman, professor of contemporary Jewish life at Brandeis
University. "It realized that the vast majority of Jewish men and women
did not have the financial means or the leisure to perform text study.
But Hasidic Judaism said there were other equally valid ways of drawing
closer to God besides text study. One way was through the joyous worship
of God."
The practice of Hasidism today looks different from when it was founded,
though many of the principles of community, deep spiritualization, music
and lifestyle remain the same.
"The idea of joyous prayer, singing, dancing and spiritual feelings
became, within Hasidic Judaism, an alternate route to Jewish
excellence," Fishman says.
Modern Hasidic Judaism has broken up into dozens of movements, each led
by a central figure, or rebbe, who serves as both a spiritual and
political leader. Hasidic movements are located around the world, with
the Lubavitchers, in Crown Heights, N.Y., among the most prominent.
The tenets of Orthodox Judaism play a strong role in Hasidism, as
religious observance, rituals and the Torah, or the first five books of
the Hebrew Bible, are centerpieces of Hasidic culture. Hasidic Jews
believe in following the literal word of God and the 613 commandments as
found in the Torah as closely as possible.
Hasidic life focuses on cultural institutions, including the school,
prayer house, ritual bathhouse and the study house, and dress is
traditional, with men wearing long black coats and beards while women
wear scarves and modest clothing.
Everyday life is deeply religious, and Hasidic Jews engage in ongoing
study and regular prayer. Hasidic Jews believe in the presence of God in
all things, so almost every action throughout the day is accompanied by
a prayer, including such actions as washing one's hands and eating.
Hasidism places emphasis on the intent of the prayer, as mood and
feeling are central to the religious experience. As such, Hasidic
worship frequently involves music and dance in a celebratory and joyous
mood. crimes committed by a Hasidic
Jew So now what's the
difference between the rabbis and Judaism and the preists and
Catholicism in the current attack on the Pope and the Catholic Church?
Jen Drouin (Jenm) wrote:
I'd like to add my thanks to Joel and Joe for having the courage to come
forward with this information. You two are doing a great service to all
victims of sexual abuse. It is hard for people to believe that an
individual they hold in high esteem could be molesting their children
and many do not want to believe that this is true. It is far easier to
brand the child a liar or to tell the child to stay away from the
person, forget it happened and to tell no one, then to hold the molester
accountable. It takes a lot of chutzpah to call out this person who is
often a well liked and respected member of a community as a molester of
children. The molestor knows this and they feel safe. Children don't
make up stories of molestation. When an adult touches a child's
genitals, makes a child touch their genitals that is sexual molestation
of a child, regardless of whether or not oral, anal or vaginal
penetration occurs. The United States is just beginning to be willing to
acknowledge the sexual abuse of children. Finally the adults whom those
children told are doing what they should have been doing all along,
standing up for the children.
Chandra Harvith (standfortruth) wrote:
Thank you Barbara Hagerty for this brave report. It is a day to
celebrate when truth is revealed. Thank you to the brave individuals who
have not let fear and intimidation strangle their voices. Thank you
again and again.
Sandra Walch (irishmama) wrote:
Please have the Hasidic Comminity contact the Buffalo Catholic Diocese.
They are using a program called Protecting God's Children. This may be
helpful.god help us all.
Jeff Johnson (Collegeville) wrote:
Of course, this is a seriously sad story.
As a Catholic, well aware of the purification that my Church has
suffered, I can still say that it was hard to hear Catholic perpetrators
alluded to twice in the story, almost as if they are the archtype, as if
it is ironic to imagine any other kind of clergy abuse.
For many years, protestant clergy abuse cases have outstripped Catholic
allegations, but the Catholic Church is always an easy target, isn't it?
Nathan Greatly (TakeItBack) wrote:
At the risk of sounding "anti religion" I propose that until we teach
our children (and our adult population for that matter) to question and
not blindly follow ANY ONE, we are going to continue to see these types
of abuses. Any time society relegates individuals (religious leaders,
teacher, police) to god like status whose very questioning results in
discipline or shame, it results in abuse of power. Religious leaders
seem to be especially handy at this given their ability to apply guilt
and shame to the equation. Teach your children to question everything
and worship no one.
David O'Reilly (reporter) wrote:
I was astonished to read the claim in this article that private
religious schools in New York don't have to report child sexual abuse to
civil authorities. If true, it's an outrage. If New York has not done so
I would urge all residents concerned about child sex abuse to lean hard
on the legislature to make reporting mandatory for any institutions -
public or private - in caretaker roles with minor children. Bishops and
supervising rabbis and Little League managers are NOT equipped to
investigate allegations of abuse; police and district attorney offices
ARE. In 2006 Pennsylvania greatly strengthened its reporting
requirements and extended criminal liability to the leaders of
institutions who conceal abuse by employees and underlings. New York
would be wise to study what Pennsylvania has put in place.
Andrea Lopez (Fabi) wrote:
I can't believe the nerve of that religious leader asking "how bad the
molestation was!" I would have slapped him if I were her.
And why did Diangelo's parents turn away from him? I can't understand
attitudes like that...
Lonnie Soury (Soury) wrote:
Joel Engelman, featured in the story, is a co founder of Survivors for
Justice, an organization formed by vicitms of sexual abuse in the
Orthodox Jewish community. The confidential hotline is 877-735-1420,
www.Survivorsforjustice.org
Engelman and the organization know of others who were victims of
Reichman. SFJ has received numerous confidential calls concerning sexual
abuse at the hands of Rabbi Reichman while employed at United Talmudical
Academy. It is believed that scores, maybe hundreds of boys may have
been sexually abused by Rabbi Reichman, dating back as far as 15 years,
yet he continues to be protected by the school officials.
Avery M (Avery) wrote:
Fundamentalist patriarchies.
E W (elenachristine) wrote:
I agree, Kate. David, your seems along the same lines as the community
member asking: "Well, how bad was the abuse really? I mean, who's the
real bad guy here. Aren't we all sinners?" Only slightly more
sophisticated and sprinkled with some philosophical jargon.
Barnes Noble (Clio) wrote:
I'd like to add my thanks to Joel and Joe for having the courage to come
forward with this information. You two are doing a great service not
just to your community, but to all victims of sexual abuse. Regardless
of whether or not you win this battle, you are both aiding in the war
against both these heinous abusers and those who protect them. Thank you
both.
Monday, February 02, 2009
Diana Shellenberger (dshelle) wrote:
Yes, SpiritMatter, we humans are capable of offense, or sin, if you
wish. We are also capable of greatness. We have laws to keep victimizers
in some sort of check, not just because we love judging each other. I
hope you're not suggesting that because you believe that even children
are a "mixture of victim and offender" that somehows lets pedophiles off
the hook?
kate burdess (kate_is_great) wrote:
Yeah, I don't see how a child can be an offender when someone is raping
him, that was quite a weird argument David if you can explain your
comment.
E W (elenachristine) wrote:
David: A young boy being raped by someone he can't even see is pretty cut
and dry. There really doesn't seem to be much gray area there. A
discussion on child sexual abuse seems like a bizarre place to wax
philosophical on the nature of good and evil. It comes across as really
strange.
Susan Kpko (Poppyc) wrote:
Holy crap! "Twenty-one years ago, when he was 7, Diangelo recalls going
to the mikvah with his father to find the place packed with naked men
and boys." Sect, yeah I'd say secret fraking sect of predators. I don't
care how old your religion is, it's creepy as hell! What kind of parent
would expose their naked child to other naked men. That blows my mind.
David Hostetter (SpiritMatter) wrote:
How do humans arrive at judgments? Judgments about any issue are highly
dependent on the result a human would like to achieve. Human nature is a
primary influence. Humans tend to be selfish and self righteous. They
are selfish when they make judgments that benefit primarily themselves
or their family, church, nation, etc. They are self righteous when they
make judgments that set themselves or their family, church, nation, etc.
as the good guys and the other guys as evil doers. This can and has many
times become a vicious yin yang cycle with both sides chasing each other
in a never ending circle, each doing evil while claiming they are the
real victims. All humans, if they have a choice, want to be seen as the
victim rather than the offender. What we often fail to take into account
is that both victims and offenders are being influenced by their human
nature. Supposed "victims" are not angels and supposed "offenders" are
not all devils. Your judgment about this issue will depend on whether
your goal is to heal and restore relationships or to lift some humans up
as "the good guys" and permanently brand and punish others as the "evil
doers"
Romans 3:23 for ALL have sinned...
We all are a mixture of victim and offender.
Lois Leader (INTJ) wrote:
Similar ugly scenarios repeat themselves within many insular communities
built on hierarchy and dominance. Mere human beings placed in a position
of unquestioned authority, ostensibly by a higher power, can come to
feel such an incredible sense of entitlement that they believe they can
do as they please to those "below" them. The deeper tragedy is that
children raised in such an environment come to accept it as the way the
world is supposed to work.
Steve S (stephens) wrote:
I went to a church, as a boy, where abuse took place. There were
parishioners who refused to believe any accusations and defended the
priest with an unquestionable devotion. The parish divided and over half
the members left. It was a very surrealistic experience to see so many
intelligent people blinded by their faith. They took every accusation as
a personal attack and refused to even discuss the issue; even after the
priest was removed for "undisclosed" reasons.
It is not surprising that so many "old" religions have lost members due
to their elevating mere men and women to the status of untouchable and
unquestionable deity and "voice of god."
Whether Gentile or Jew abuse exist. More
people like Joe and Joel need to come forward and tell their story. Self
deception and total denial is far too prevalent and innocent children
need our protection. One child hurt is too many!
Dan Kovalcik (Dan_K) wrote:
I'm not sure what is the worse crime.. the molestation and rape itself
or the covering up and protection of these offenders by the
organizational structures of the churches and synagogues.
This is so similar to the Catholic Church coverups over the last
decade... I feel sick thinking of these two men having to deal with
these horrible events almost entirely alone. I truely wish these men
peace and some sense of closure after bringing to light their terrible
stories.
Chester Morrison (Chet) wrote:
These rebbe are the same as the Temple Priests of Jerusalem in the first
century who sought the death of someone speaking out against their
xenophobic society, the same as the frocked proctors of the Inquisition.
Today's civilization is only one event removed from religious barbarism.
Vicki Polin (VickiPolin) wrote:
I personally believe that Assemblyman Dov Hikind is enabling those who
have been accused of child molestation to continue on to harm more
children. I've been told that according to Jewish law (halacha) we are
all required to do what we can to prevent one more child from being
harmed -- making all Jews mandated reporters. Meaning we need to report
the crimes to child abuse hot-lines to investigation and not our rabbis
Vicki Polin (VickiPolin) wrote:
I want to personally thank Joel Engelman and Joe Diangelo for having the
courage to tell their stories and speak out against sex crimes in their
communities. They both should be seen as heros. I believe that when ever
they walk into a room everyone should stand up and applaud them as one
would do with any other hero.
It's important to remember that according to statistics one out of ever
4 adults have been sexually abused by the time they reached 18. This
includes in the orthodox world. We have a huge problem on our hands and
the only way things will change is by having more survivors speak out as
Joel and Joe have done.
The Awareness Center, Inc. is the international Jewish Coalition Against
Sexual Abuse/Assault. www.theawarenesscenter.org
443-857-5560
Lee Saltz (sixgolds) wrote:
So, while I absolutely don't dispute that these horrors are taking place
with both boy and girls what I would like to be clarified for those who
are not aware is that there are different sects of Hasidic Jews, that
Williamsburg is the home to a particular sect. There is a different sect
(totally unaffliated with those in Williamsburg) in Boro Park and
another in Crown Heights (both Brooklyn neighborhoods.
I agree,that somehow that an end has to come to this horror. It's time
to peel back some of the layers of insulation and remember that this is
the United States of America and the neigborhood is NOT a town in the
old country. I fully understand that most of the Ultra Orthodox people
living in this community are good, decent people, the rotten ones, need
to be dealt with according to the law of the land in which they have
chosen to live.
Colin Keller (newman_clk) wrote:
Diana, you took the words right out of my mouth. It appears to be the
same issue that Roman Catholic Bishops had a few decades ago and all the
while, children continue to be abused.
Monday, February 02, 2009
Andrew B (awb) wrote:
This situation would seem to call for the most impartial and expert
investigation. Consider that in the aura of secrecy in this society
coupled with the different order of importance with respect to family
and social taboos, both accuser and accused have the same advantages and
disadvantages with respect to what is alleged.
Put simply, it would seem to be just as difficult to prove an accusation
as it would be to disprove one.
Monday, February 02, 2009
Joe Zen (joezen777) wrote:
Good point Diana. I think if I asked my own five year old to describe
what rape is he wouldn't have the faintest clue. It's horrible. When
these cases can be corroborated by scientific evidence the death penalty
should be considered. But I can't ever understand why people sacrifice
the safety of their children for their leader's facade of integrity.
Monday, February 02, 2009
Marcia Spiegel (haniveah) wrote:
For at least 25 years I have heard stories from women and girls of abuse
at the hands of their rebbe or teacher. Well known charismatic leaders
have abused girls and gotten away with it because no one wants to
believe the stories or they accuse the victim of misinterpreting the
affectionate gesture. They are confused about what happened to them and
denied support or protection. The family's reputation seems to take
precedence over the girl's safety. As years pass the charismatic leader
becomes even more adored, and the truth of her experience even more
denied. If/when he dies if she speaks out she is further accused of
speaking ill of the dead, or making accusations against someone who can
no longer defend himself. A no win situation. Marcia Spiegel (haniveah)
Monday, February 02, 2009
Diana Shellenberger (dshelle) wrote:
This is the central comment of the story, and why these crimes continue
to go on. "To me it does not make sense," says community leader Rabbi
David Niederman. "that for so many years so many people have been
violated, and for so many years they have been quiet. Something does not
add up. It's being blown out of proportion, big time." As a community
leader, Rabbi Niederman is protecting the wrong people in this instance.
He clearly does not understand that small children do not understand
what has happened to them and they do not have the vocabulary to
describe it. Perhaps their family situations do not allow them the space
and the comfort to talk openly about sexual abuse. And then when they
are old enough and experienced enough to talk about it, they get this
kind of reaction from a community leader.
keith platt (progprof) wrote:
I salute the bravery of these two men. Their speaking out brings light
to the darkness of secrecy. It is through actions like these and the
reporting of NPR that evils like child sexual abuse will be stopped. The
men and women who harm children are criminals and should be prosecuted
as such. The private school still exists in the public sphere. If a
student is murdered in the halls of a yeshiva, would they keep it from
the police? Is the murder of innocence ok to us as a people? Again I
salute these brave men for daring to speak truth to power!
sara welding (jenniferh) wrote:
The Jewish community has alot of abuse,Not just the hasidish Jews.The
entire Orthodox community has a major problem. I've seen it, its not
just this type of abuse. There is alot of domestic violence and battery
of children (physical abuse).Men go to synagogue and them come home and
beat their wives.Children are beaten by their mothers and fathers.I met
an orthodox jewish girl who was molested by a male relative.Its
widespread,I've met classmates who were afraid to come home after school
in fear of violence.It does go unreported.jewish people are afraid to
report people.Because the community is all about reputation and if you
ruin anyones reputation then you are embarrasing yourself and the
community.Orthodox jews have to marry other orthodox jews and bad word
around the community will prevent this.Why do the rabbis allow this.It
is a crime to harm others or helpless children.This should be punished
by the jewish community.People should speak out and be encouraged to
speak out.I bet 50 percent of the jewish community has met or knows a
classmate,neighbor or friend who was a victim.It should not be
embarrasing for a victim to speak about this,Its not their fault.This
can happen to anyone.Any child can be vulnerable in the Community.
man simpe (Simpleman) wrote:
Toshca,
It's not lack of punishment but the discriminatory manner it's meted
out. Wealthy or influential receive six months at the tennis farm and a
pardon. Poor,four by six foot cell for life.
Religion, unquestionable power passing judgement on behavior of others
while ignoring their own.
Danielle Lawson (Lady_Flick) wrote:
This story does not surprise me. It is high time that ALL communities
address the issue of sexual abuse.
I was continually victimized by my mother's husband throughout my
adolescence. You can view the initial Cleveland Plain Dealer article and
blog here: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/06/pastor_from_cleveland_hts_admi/print.html
Children and adult survivors should be receiving counseling - whether or
not the perpetrator is brought to justice. This issue has been swept
under the rug for so long that it more closely resembles a washcloth
perched atop a landfill.
Religion is not the answer this time. Come out of denial and stop
betraying your children.
Toshca Marshall (Toshca) wrote:
To take this a step further, even if these guys are "brought to justice"
can we discuss the lack of punishment in American courts? And why is it
so difficult for people to go up against religion? Is it because they
think it reflects on them? I would say it reflects more on them for not
standing up for least of all, children.
Benjamin Haag (CBenjaminHaag) wrote:
"For me to see NPR single out some 2 known drop outs and under their
testimony taint a picture on the entire Jewish Community...is a true lie
and fabrication!"
I don't agree that the article impugned the Hasidic community. It quoted
one man as stating his perception that it was a larger problem than many
think.
That said, assuming that Joel Engelman and Joe Diangelo could be
characterized as "drop-outs" by some discernable standard, how is that
remotely relevant to the matter at hand? Would their abuse be any less a
repugnant violation of their trust, and of the trust of their community,
were these men expensively-dressed investment bankers? Whoops, bad
example...
Benjamin Haag (CBenjaminHaag) wrote:
"For me to see NPR single out some 2 known drop outs and under their
testimony taint a picture on the entire Jewish Community...is a true lie
and fabrication!"
I don't agree that the article impugned the Hasidic community. It quoted
one man as stating his perception that it was a larger problem than many
think.
That said, assuming that Joel Engelman and Joe Diangelo could be
characterized as "drop-outs" my some discernable standard, how is that
remotely relevant to the matter at hand? Would their abuse be any less a
repugnant violation of their trust, and of the trust of their community,
were these men expensivly-dressed investment bankers? Whoops, bad
example...
Amber Esor (PeaceOnEarth) wrote:
Excellent story by NPR. Thanks to Joe and Joel for speaking their truth!
We are all truly connected. Perhaps it is time we all realize that the
unquestionable power of our religious leaders often leads to abuse, I
have experienced this first hand within the Native American religious
community. Reading this story, I recognize a very similar pattern of
abuse within two very different worlds. Perhaps it is time we finally
accept that no one religion is better than the other. Absolute power
corrupts absolutely. May we always have the freedom to question that
which does not feel right to our souls, not matter who we choose to call
god.
Mark Behar (mpbehar) wrote:
I was saddened to read about these reports of alleged child abuse by
Hasids orthodox Jews. As an openly gay, reform, secular Jew, I am
acutely aware of the sad intolerance of anything different by the
Orthodox Jews, especially Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Jews. Perhaps
this tragedy will allow discussion, better understanding, and perhaps
even acceptance of the great diversity of sexual orientation and gender
identity that has been described since the beginning of recorded
history. Perhaps all those involved should consider reading
"Wrestling With God and Men: Homosexuality in the Jewish Tradition," by
Rabbi Steven Greenberg, or the documentary, "Trembling Before G-d," for
some fresh Orthodox perspectives on the Old Testament.
Harry Hudson (Monseyer) wrote:
While I do acknowledge the fact that sex abuse makes its way among the
Jewish community, I totally disagree with the notion that it’s wide
spread, and at a large scale like the infamous Catholic Sex Scandal.
I was raised and brought up in a Hasidic community and our Rabbis and
Parents did educate us that if someone dares touch you beneath your belt
you should alert your Rabbis immediately.
I even remember that one teacher was thrown out mid-year because of
Abuse allegations; and out of shame forced to move out of state, he was
also barred to be a teacher again.
For me to see NPR single out some 2 known drop outs and under their
testimony taint a picture on the entire Jewish Community as being
reckless and insensitive to this issue, is a true lie and fabrication!
Joe Veman (Patriot111) wrote:
This is not an isolated set of cases...take a peek at this list. I think
it trumps the list RC priest offenders by quite a bit.
www.theawarenesscenter.org/clergyabuse.html
Good luck trying to collect restitution from this group.
michael guilmette (spacerook1) wrote:
Since the media exposure (no pun) of the RC priest sex
scandal with the former Rev. James Porter
in the diocese of Fall River. The RC Church dished out over
$ 1/2 Billion in settlements! The majority being punitive
because the hierarchy in the institutioin covered up, intimidated
and badgered witnesses, denied any involvement, transfered
abusive priest or sent them to rehab in New Mexico , only to be
returned to a different parish! This was all under the watch of
Cardinal Bernard Law who is now in exile at the Vatican.
Now the Jewish will have the same fate. Jurors and Judges have
no sympathy for this type abuse and shouldn't for this kind
of behavior.
Alan Guttman (amguttman) wrote:
Just as child abuse is not confined to any one socio-economicm, ethnic,
or cultural group, abuse may committed people from any religion. As a
Jew, I now know how Catholics must have felt after hearing about abuse
committed by priests. Deeply ashamed. Even more disappointing are those
who were interviewed who continue to deny that abuse occurred saying it
is "blown up out of proportion." Sadly, I fear it is the tip of the
iceberg.
Sarah Michlin (SarahMasha) wrote:
To Joe and Joel, please don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.
There is a lot of good in Judaism, even the black hat kind. The
sleazeballs who abused you really are a minority. And the kind of
politics that is in evidence here is why I live OUTSIDE New York. (BT
Lub.)
I know that in much of society the children are taught to keep quiet.
This harmed Diangelo greatly. The first/last line of defense this poor
little kid should have been taught is when it is appropriate to make a
scene. This is a lesson EVERY child needs to be taught.
David: Please clarify your message. I hope I have misunderstood it. Your
last line comes from what source? To whom is it addressed?
David Rubin (looksatsmallthings) wrote:
The idea that private school officials are exempt from reporting abuse
of children is incorrect. According to the following document: http://www.ocfs.state.ny.us/main/publications/Pub1159text.asp
from the New York State Office of Children and Family Services, mandated
reporters include "school official" and "social services worker" among
others without specification of whether they are in a public or private
school setting. This is confirmed by review of the relevant New York
State social services law Article 6 CHILDREN; Title 6 CHILD PROTECTIVE
SERVICES, section 413 Persons and Officials Required to Report Cases of
Suspected Child Abuse or Maltreatment which explicitly includes staff of
"public or private institution, school..." The weak link in the law is
that the mandated reporter is mandated to report to the official in
charge of said institution who is responsible for "all subsequent
administration necessitated by the report." rather than to a relevant
state agency if the official in charge is the accused.
John House (Tigre) wrote:
Too much of what passes for religion, it is the love of being associated
with righteousness, honesty and knowledge. The truly pious on the other
hand, love justice, examine their motives with a razor; and they humbly
seek to learn for the sake of understanding.
Keeping silent about the possibility that a child is abused so that
people will hire you or marry your children...to me this has more to do
with the worship of Baal than the living G_d.
Is that a rhetorical question Orel Stevenson?
Religion is religion. Regardless of its origin, it remains a human
construct.
Monday, February 02, 2009
Recommend (2)
Report abuse
wrote:
I, like many others on this thread, agree with you Nathan Greatly.
Richard Dawkins also has strong opinions about how children should, or
should not, be exposed and conditioned to religious ideals.
Interesting that you imply being "anti-religious" is a risk. Another
Dawkins pet peeve is the 'unwritten rule' that religions in general are
off limits to criticism. Perhaps that is changing?
My concern is that a new age of skepticism which might also be applied
to science and genuine rational thought is not the sort of 'healthy'
approach that would contribute to society and civilization in a
beneficial way.
|
